Prior to watching this video, be sure to watch how to make naturally leavened dough.
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Your house is not too cool to have a good rise happen fairly rapidly, especially this time of year. If you can have it mixed and in the bowl early in the day and watch it rise, you can see in the video what it will look like as it rises above the top of the bowl. Then flatten, cut, shape and put into pans, and watch it rise again. It should go swiftly.
There is a definite smell associated with dough that has no more feed for the bacteria. I don't like that smell, nor the results I get when using starter that has not been freshened to a more subtle smell. It is okay if the starter is cool when you begin. Why? Because it warms up as your bosch mixer kneads the bread. Once it is warm and there is new flour (food source) the leavening will become quite apparent to you. Best!
That makes sense about the temperature. We keep our home pretty cool (73-76 degrees), so I turned the oven light on and let the dough rise in the oven (I didn't turn the actual oven on, just left the light on for warmth). I wonder if that light made things too warm being on all night. The first rise began at 10:30 Pm and ended around 8:30 AM.
Also, the starter I used was warm on the counter, instead of fresh out of the fridge so maybe there were too many warm things.
Yeah, the sulfur smell is pretty weird. I never got that with a previous yeast start I had. It only seems to happen, though, after the yeast gets hungry after feeding at room temp. I am hoping that that will go away as things balance out. I still haven't started on attempt #2, but if rising overnight would be too much then I will do what you said and just let it rise during the day so I can watch what goes on.
What color is your starter. If you are getting hockey pucks then you are letting it rise too long on the first rise and therefore their is too little feed left in the dough for the second rise to complete itself. Temperature makes a big difference in leavening time required. At times when it is really hot outside and warm in the house the whole time required to make bread is a fraction of what it is when the temperature is moderate or cool outside. For example, in very warm climate the first rise may only require four or five hours and the second rise and hour. Also, your home has certain forms of friendly and unfriendly bacteria in it already. Those spores will become active whenever there is something to feed upon. It required a number of weeks for our kitchen to become very friendly for making this bread. We have not had a sulfur smell ever, but the longer the bread rises there is a distinct smell to it and the longer the starter sits out where it is warm the more sour it becomes. When it gets too sour, we have to refresh it a few times until we achieve a more subtle and fresh smell. After awhile this process becomes quite intuitive as you see what affects the rise time. Sometimes during Fall or Spring things get really drafty and humid. Under those conditions we might experience a week or two where the first right might take more than 30 hours, but this is very rare. During this time of year (August) both rises are fairly rapid, and we don't have to do it overnight. We mix early in the day and once the dough rises above the pan we flatten it, form it, place it in the bread pans, and it is very quick to rise the second time into nice loaves (one to two hours).
Yes, I used my bosch to mix the dough and the sides got pretty darn clean. I am wondering if the kneading didn't go so well cuz the dough tended to just stay to one side of the machine, making the spinning a little uneven, but the dough passed the windowpane test...
The only other thing I could figure is that before I began thew recipe I had fed the start and let it double in a warm place, THEN used it to make the bread (I stirred it down and measured it, of course). But I thought that you are supposed to use the start when it is at its peak in the recipes.
Anyways, I have fed the start a few times since then, finally putting it in the refrigerator after its most recent feed. To my surprise it is almost doubled again after just three days in the fridge. (Whoo hoo!)
I think I will try the recipe once more today, making sure to add some extra flour and let you guys know how it turns out.
Finally, have you noticed a sulfur smell coming from your start after it has peaked and is getting hungry again? The hockey-puck bread that I made had no sulfur smell or taste, but the start almost had a rotten egg smell to it, especially if it was sealed to tight while growing at room temp.
Did you add sufficient flour to the mix that the dough completely pulled away from your mixer, or was there still remnants of dough here and their on the mixer. It sounds as if there may not have been quite enough flour added initially. Also, a by-product of fermentation is liquid (alcohol that cooks off), which explains some wetness, but not unto a runny state. You should be able to flatten the dough, form it, and it then begins to rise again even quicker than the rise over night, substantially quicker I might add. I will ask Colleen if we can use the same starter we sent to you to make some loaves today and will let you know what the outcome is. Jim
Shari, if you get that firgure out, let me know. The same thing happened to me this morning. A great rise overnight, from an initially great texture, but when I turned it onto the counter the dough was runny! And now they are not rising. Thoughts anyone?
Wow - 450 degrees for 35 minutes! I'm having such a hard time getting my loaves to turn out! The first rise is always great, but when I turn out the loaves, the dough is somewhat runny. I try to shape them but the dough will not hold the shape well, so I just get them in the pans fast. They take longer to rise the 2nd time, more like 4 to 5 hours. I bake them at 375 for 30 minutes but the dough shrinks to about 1/2 the size. The taste is ok, but is hardly a sandwich bread. I will NOT give up! I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. Maybe I need to knead more on the initial knead. Do you do the windowpane test? I knead for 10 minutes in my Bosch, but the dough will still not pass the windowpane test unless i knead more. Also, I only make 2 loaves at a time.
Leanna, The first few loaves we made turned out like hockey pucks:) It gets better. Here are some thoughts for you:
First, the type of flour you are using makes a difference. Grind it fresh and we use hard white wheat; the protein count is 13% in the grain we use. The higher the protein count the longer the whole process takes. If your wheat is old and it hasn't been stored in a cool place it doesn't work as well. Also, during the past few weeks the weather has been on again and off again switching between warm and cold. This is the hardest time of the year to make bread consistently. When it is drafty it takes so much longer to rise properly. Be sure to not add too much flour when you are making the dough, just enough so the dough pulls cleanly from the side of the mixing bowl. Colleen and I will schedule and event for this month for local residents who would like to watch and participate in learning to make the bread. Today is a great day for making bread, because our house feels so good. Even in the wintertime we make bread easily. It's just the draftiness of Spring in this valley that is somewhat disruptive at times. Colleen also said to make sure that you allow it to rise full. Also, don't forget that after your starter becomes very active, freshen it a couple of times until the real sour flavor goes out of it, or your bread will be very sour. The starter should have a nice pleasant oder before you use it to make bread. If we wait too long between bread-making, we always freshen it twice before using it to mix up a batch of bread. Jim
my bread came out really dense...my started was bubbling, so I knew it was active...could I be using the wrong flour? or maybe I didn't grind it fine enough? Any tips would be helpful...I want my loaves to turn out like yours!
Comments
Your house is not too cool to have a good rise happen fairly rapidly, especially this time of year. If you can have it mixed and in the bowl early in the day and watch it rise, you can see in the video what it will look like as it rises above the top of the bowl. Then flatten, cut, shape and put into pans, and watch it rise again. It should go swiftly.
There is a definite smell associated with dough that has no more feed for the bacteria. I don't like that smell, nor the results I get when using starter that has not been freshened to a more subtle smell. It is okay if the starter is cool when you begin. Why? Because it warms up as your bosch mixer kneads the bread. Once it is warm and there is new flour (food source) the leavening will become quite apparent to you. Best!
My starter is a nice, light tan. :)
That makes sense about the temperature. We keep our home pretty cool (73-76 degrees), so I turned the oven light on and let the dough rise in the oven (I didn't turn the actual oven on, just left the light on for warmth). I wonder if that light made things too warm being on all night. The first rise began at 10:30 Pm and ended around 8:30 AM.
Also, the starter I used was warm on the counter, instead of fresh out of the fridge so maybe there were too many warm things.
Yeah, the sulfur smell is pretty weird. I never got that with a previous yeast start I had. It only seems to happen, though, after the yeast gets hungry after feeding at room temp. I am hoping that that will go away as things balance out. I still haven't started on attempt #2, but if rising overnight would be too much then I will do what you said and just let it rise during the day so I can watch what goes on.
I'll let you guys know how it turns out!
Thank
What color is your starter. If you are getting hockey pucks then you are letting it rise too long on the first rise and therefore their is too little feed left in the dough for the second rise to complete itself. Temperature makes a big difference in leavening time required. At times when it is really hot outside and warm in the house the whole time required to make bread is a fraction of what it is when the temperature is moderate or cool outside. For example, in very warm climate the first rise may only require four or five hours and the second rise and hour. Also, your home has certain forms of friendly and unfriendly bacteria in it already. Those spores will become active whenever there is something to feed upon. It required a number of weeks for our kitchen to become very friendly for making this bread. We have not had a sulfur smell ever, but the longer the bread rises there is a distinct smell to it and the longer the starter sits out where it is warm the more sour it becomes. When it gets too sour, we have to refresh it a few times until we achieve a more subtle and fresh smell. After awhile this process becomes quite intuitive as you see what affects the rise time. Sometimes during Fall or Spring things get really drafty and humid. Under those conditions we might experience a week or two where the first right might take more than 30 hours, but this is very rare. During this time of year (August) both rises are fairly rapid, and we don't have to do it overnight. We mix early in the day and once the dough rises above the pan we flatten it, form it, place it in the bread pans, and it is very quick to rise the second time into nice loaves (one to two hours).
Yes, I used my bosch to mix the dough and the sides got pretty darn clean. I am wondering if the kneading didn't go so well cuz the dough tended to just stay to one side of the machine, making the spinning a little uneven, but the dough passed the windowpane test...
The only other thing I could figure is that before I began thew recipe I had fed the start and let it double in a warm place, THEN used it to make the bread (I stirred it down and measured it, of course). But I thought that you are supposed to use the start when it is at its peak in the recipes.
Anyways, I have fed the start a few times since then, finally putting it in the refrigerator after its most recent feed. To my surprise it is almost doubled again after just three days in the fridge. (Whoo hoo!)
I think I will try the recipe once more today, making sure to add some extra flour and let you guys know how it turns out.
Finally, have you noticed a sulfur smell coming from your start after it has peaked and is getting hungry again? The hockey-puck bread that I made had no sulfur smell or taste, but the start almost had a rotten egg smell to it, especially if it was sealed to tight while growing at room temp.
Thanks, Jim!
Did you add sufficient flour to the mix that the dough completely pulled away from your mixer, or was there still remnants of dough here and their on the mixer. It sounds as if there may not have been quite enough flour added initially. Also, a by-product of fermentation is liquid (alcohol that cooks off), which explains some wetness, but not unto a runny state. You should be able to flatten the dough, form it, and it then begins to rise again even quicker than the rise over night, substantially quicker I might add. I will ask Colleen if we can use the same starter we sent to you to make some loaves today and will let you know what the outcome is. Jim
Shari, if you get that firgure out, let me know. The same thing happened to me this morning. A great rise overnight, from an initially great texture, but when I turned it onto the counter the dough was runny! And now they are not rising. Thoughts anyone?
Wow - 450 degrees for 35 minutes! I'm having such a hard time getting my loaves to turn out! The first rise is always great, but when I turn out the loaves, the dough is somewhat runny. I try to shape them but the dough will not hold the shape well, so I just get them in the pans fast. They take longer to rise the 2nd time, more like 4 to 5 hours. I bake them at 375 for 30 minutes but the dough shrinks to about 1/2 the size. The taste is ok, but is hardly a sandwich bread. I will NOT give up! I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. Maybe I need to knead more on the initial knead. Do you do the windowpane test? I knead for 10 minutes in my Bosch, but the dough will still not pass the windowpane test unless i knead more. Also, I only make 2 loaves at a time.
Jim,
I have a friend that I think would like to come to a demonstration/class. She's in Layton, but she may be able to come to wherever you'll be.
First, the type of flour you are using makes a difference. Grind it fresh and we use hard white wheat; the protein count is 13% in the grain we use. The higher the protein count the longer the whole process takes. If your wheat is old and it hasn't been stored in a cool place it doesn't work as well. Also, during the past few weeks the weather has been on again and off again switching between warm and cold. This is the hardest time of the year to make bread consistently. When it is drafty it takes so much longer to rise properly. Be sure to not add too much flour when you are making the dough, just enough so the dough pulls cleanly from the side of the mixing bowl. Colleen and I will schedule and event for this month for local residents who would like to watch and participate in learning to make the bread. Today is a great day for making bread, because our house feels so good. Even in the wintertime we make bread easily. It's just the draftiness of Spring in this valley that is somewhat disruptive at times. Colleen also said to make sure that you allow it to rise full. Also, don't forget that after your starter becomes very active, freshen it a couple of times until the real sour flavor goes out of it, or your bread will be very sour. The starter should have a nice pleasant oder before you use it to make bread. If we wait too long between bread-making, we always freshen it twice before using it to mix up a batch of bread. Jim
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